The full transcript of my conversation with Roberta
This transcript was generated using Descript. So it might contain some creative mistakes.
Daniele: Hi Roberta, such a pleasure to have you here today.
Roberta: Hi. Hello.
Daniele: I have one very simple question for you, which is when you go to a birthday party how do you usually present yourself to people that don't know you yet?
Meet Roberta
Roberta: I'm a very simple person. So in general, I would just say I'm a designer and try not to talk about work necessarily when Yeah, I'm yeah, at the birthday party or in general, when I'm outside the professional sphere, I like to, yeah I think in general to be simple and to, to more I'm a big listener usually in those situations.
The less I can tell about myself, the better.
Daniele: Seems that this is a this is a pattern that I see with many service designers, which is like. Let's keep it very simple so that people don't ask me too many questions.
Roberta: Yeah, also.
Daniele: And how do you present yourself when you go to... More kind of professional parties, stuff from some networking events and and events that where people are more interested in what your professional background is and how do you present yourself?
I assume that it's a bit more complex.
Roberta: Yeah, I think that's the moment in which I would take the word service on and say, okay, I'm a service designer, but also I think in general, in my experience, I've been working in service design also in experience and interaction design a lot. What I try to stress in those moments is is that I perceive also myself a bit as a pioneer in service design in the way in which I've been studying it when I was let's say working on the service design tools project and all the collection of tools and the attempts also later on to bring that type of research into the practice and then from the practice.
Give something back to the community. So I try to tell a bit about my personality and history in the way in which I approach the practice and the way in which I may turn it into something I do every day. So that's that's something I highlight. I also try to stress the fact that service design sounds always very functional in a way.
So you have this idea that services need to work well for people. And there is somebody who is there to try to understand all the problems and to get them fixed which is not necessarily the 100% the way, which I believe or I think about service design, I think there is a lot of of a big part of it is also more about the experience that you are creating both in the way in which it's delivered to the user and in the way in which it.
It's built inside a company and that's something that has a lot to do also with the way in which you want to think about it and shape it in a way. And so that's something I always stress is that service designers Describe always themselves as, okay, I'm a service designer, I do this and that.
Autorship as a service designer
Roberta: But in my opinion, they are all different in a way as any designer in other disciplines. If you ask a designer to, to bring, come up with an idea of a chair. And through it, it will be different if you ask different people. And for me, with services and with this type of practice, it's the same. There is a personal dimension that you put into what you do, and that doesn't need to be hidden, but needs to come up somehow.
And, yeah, a lot of what I've been doing is also I think in the direction of saying there are different ways of approaching it. And I want to talk about also, in a way, my way of thinking of the services, mine or my team ways of thinking of the service, because I believe everyone has personal points of view on this.
Daniele: It's something that I really resonate with this last part where you say service designers are not just a cog in a machine that they take problems and they output solutions, but they also have a bit of an alter element or creative element where you can give the same problem to two different service designers and they will not come with exactly the same solution because there is a part of them in it.
And definitely I think it's a very important reminder that this is also. Something that is necessary and something that you can celebrate, that there is a human element that can be expressed in it.
Roberta: Yeah, and I think it's something that we, it's never been it's never been celebrated that much in this practice.
Also for the way in which it's positioned with the community. Corporates or with the consultancies, it's more okay, I will do the work and then we'll have the final results in terms of process, experience and everything. But there is the personal dimension and I think that's also connected to the type of relationship that as a designer you establish with the people you are working with in the organization you are working with and vice versa.
So in my opinion for example, the whole idea of which sometimes I feel crazy about of leaving more the big consultancy fear firms and trying to do something different and at a different scale is also a way to establish these relationship Very much more on like the personal dimensions and try to, yeah, develop a path together.
And in that path is equally important for me to know the organizations I'm working with. And obviously try to understand them well and with my team to support them well. But vice versa is equally important. It's I think a dimension that could be easily lost in bigger scales.
Daniele: Yeah, so what would you say to a young service designer who hears about this, maybe for the first time Oh, I, I have a bit of a, of an altership in in in, in what I'm doing. How could you, what would be a question that you would give or an advice that you would give to. to young service designers to be more aware of that and to be more in the, oh, I'm not just a cog in a machine, but I'm also a bit of an alter in
Roberta: my work.
I think it's important to trust everybody's own kind of instinct in a way in the design, and it's a act as well. And Show your points of view, because our work is not necessarily, let's say, thinking a lot of tasks or boxes that we have to fill every day, it's not just about filling canvases that we use every day.
It's really about bringing a point of view in the conversation and that is maybe shaped also based on what is emerging from research, what are the inspirations that you have been collected, but also your personal point of view. So don't hide it. And my question for the young designers is Always around this aspect, what's your perspective on what we are doing?
And what is the, what are the risks that you see? Or in general try to expose yourself and your opinions. And also to identify your entry point, let's say, to the discussion, because each of us has also service design is a kind of complex in terms of also topics and competencies that maybe it touches upon and It's not needed to develop all, let's say, the good skills of a service designer at the same level.
I think all of us have maybe things that we can, somebody owns or can do a bit better than others, et cetera. So I think my invite is always to express the opinion, but also to identify your strengths in terms of what is your the elements in this world field that make you different than compared to another service designer.
For some people, it could be the way in which you visualize complex situations. For some other people, it's the way in which you talk to the end users or the way in which you facilitate sessions with the stakeholders. But there is always something that is maybe a more special part of the practice that for each of us could be different.
And I think being aware of that as Young designers, but also then more experienced designers being also aware of the capabilities you have and the possibilities you have in the project a bit more.
Daniele: It's very refreshing to hear that, the, having the word instinct in it, is a, is such a refresher.
To say, yes we have methods, yes, we have processes and we have a common language, but at the same time, I'm allowed to share instinct. Sometimes even if I don't know why, just saying, Hey, I feel something here and this is what I feel. And sometimes when there is a point of view which might be a bit more constructed also to be able to say, Oh, I have this point of view because of this and this and that.
And also to be able to say. Yes, I'm a service designer, but I'm this type of service designer, because it's such a broad discipline that nobody is a perfect service designer where you say, I'm good at visualization, at research, at synthesis, at workshops, at implementations. That doesn't exist.
. But maybe you touch a lot of these elements, but you are maybe just like a workshop fan and say, oh, as a service design, that's where I excel and that, and there are other parts where I can can also help, but maybe I excel a little bit less. .
Roberta's special sauce for Service Design
Daniele: And so I'd like to ask where, what's the Roberta special flavor of service design or your special sauce that you bring
Roberta: in?
This is a tough question that nobody is typically asking, no, I'm joking, it's I think I like a lot our work and there are many aspects I like of it, but I think for me, probably the best answer would be, uh, synthesizing. complex matters into something that could be easily, more easily understood and discussed.
I think for a variety of reasons, some of which probably are just belong to the way in which my brain works. It's it's something that I think. It makes a difference when I'm on a project.
Enhanced Service Design tools
Daniele: And I'd like here to just highlight one part, one tiny part of your work that you've done which is public is these advanced service design tools that you are showcasing and working on, because I think they, they highlight one part of this Roberta aspect, which is taking.
Things which have a certain complexity also, and then bringing them back also in the world of service design with smart visualizations and and I think that for people who are interested in that, go check that out because these tools are great. For me, I'm not a complexity guy, I'm not a system thinker, but every time I have to share something about that, I say, Oh, go check out Roberta's work and Oblo's work, because it's inspiring even for someone who is not of that of that brand or of that type of of complexity work.
Roberta: Yeah, I think what we tried to do there is that we noticed that there are certain things we do every day in the projects, like mapping out the customer journey or developing a profile of a potential user and stuff like that, that we saw the potential of those tools in the, in terms of socialization of certain concepts.
So we don't take necessarily all, a lot of time in explaining how you analyze an experience. We just do it together with people who are, and maybe I've never done it before. And the fact that the tool is simple is. It's an enabler in that conversation to then talk also about the complexity.
We don't want to hide the complexity. It's just a way of getting the conversation started. So when we started to ask ourselves, okay, but then maybe these tools are not. Enabling us to see aspects that nowadays are extremely relevant, like the sustainability and the impact of a project or a solution, the evolution of the behaviours of a user over time and elements like that.
We thought maybe if we find a way to include certain aspects. in the tools and in the methods that we use every day, maybe that could open up the conversation even without taking the time or the space or the attention of our stakeholders to do a lecture on what is behavioral change or how we design for sustainability.
So that was the intuition and I think that one of the elements I could share is We use those tools every day in our work so that we can always have a little bit of that conversation, even if the scope of the project is not to come up with the most sustainable solution in the first place. We make room for that conversation.
Daniele: It feels like you're... Adding sprinkles of complexity, behavior change, or if we would say it like like a dad would say, it's hiding the vegetables in the burger, it's and people eat them and they'll say, Oh, this is a very good burger. And it's yeah, it's.
It's a veggie made, but you don't need to know about that, and we can have this conversation a lot of time. And I think this is a very smart element that you're doing here, which is bringing these elements of complexity and systems thinking, behavioral change, and so on for a strategic foresight at a level, which is A starting level for people to get used to these reflections slowly, and then once the maturity level is higher, we can then go to another place.
Maturity of Service Design in Italy
Daniele: Maybe let me ask you something on the topic of maturity, because this is something that I'm always very interested in. How do you see the maturity of service design in Italy specifically? You're working a lot in Italy, but you're also a public speaker. You've been traveling in a few places. Maybe do you see a difference or some specificities in how service design is practiced in Italy, how mature it is, and Maybe?
Can you also share a bit how you perceive the maturity of service design in general?
Roberta: I think we are in a situation in which definitely there has been a recognition for the value of this practice, in my opinion. Also, due to the fact that with the digital transformation processes for many companies reaching a certain level of maturity, it has become clear for a lot of organizations that you don't.
You don't necessarily just need the skills of a UX designer to prototype and implement new digital touch points and in general to bring innovation and technology in what you do, but there is the need also to think with a different perspective. So I think that's the point maybe a few years ago in which a lot of companies started to practice research for service designers also in Italy a lot.
And And I think that was obviously a good sign, something that we have always been dreaming about when I also worked a little bit with the government on a project about the digitalization of public sector services and it was basically something that if I think of myself back five years before, or ten years before, it was something that was absolutely unbelievable in my mind.
At the end, I think we reached that level of maturity. Now I think we are seeing ahead a slightly different situation because that spread and that, let's say, growth also in terms of the request for service designers in relations to processes of digital transformation, in my opinion, is.
Yeah, getting to a level in which it's covered. So I think there are new questions that probably companies, organizations, and governments need to take care of and for which we can bring interesting skills that are not just about again, new processes, new experiences, but it's...
about bringing more systemic approach, thinking about long term solutions, thinking about different models for the organizations. So I think we can be helpful in that sense, but we need also to understand how to keep the practice, let's say, aligned with the needs of the current society and what... are the biggest challenges that we are facing in these days.
And so I think that's a good input, in my opinion, especially for people who are in the education system. In Milan, we have a big faculty of service design and a master of service design that are basically educating and in general are welcoming every year people from all sorts of places. So I think we need as professionals to work with them to make sure that the next generation of service designers is having the competencies to face these new challenges that are coming up.
On a separate topic, let's say more about. Talking about, less about the market and more about the community, I think what we are seeing here in Italy is that there was a few years ago, a lot of enthusiasm and participation around the topics of service design because it was more like in many other places a moment of discovery of the existence of this new thing.
And so the community was gathering pretty often and in general. There were there was the energy, let's say, to take us time in the weekend, in the evenings, to participate, and really to spread the word. I think at the moment that's also following the maturity of the discipline a bit more in a.
It's a quiet moment, but what we are seeing is more interest in, let's say, vertical applications of service design to specific fields, so that we can really understand as practitioners or people who are interested in the topic. how it gets applied to very specific elements fields or segments.
And and I think that's where the conversation now, nowadays is more relevant.
Daniele: Awesome to see that there has been a first wave of service design with the digital transformation stuff with the community being excited about it. And that now it's like on the first plateau, maybe, if we can say like that, and the next wave is more about the specialization in in more specific verticals and also in expanding in more than in, in other areas.
And it's Also lovely to see when this recognition that, there is like this first dating part of the community with service design where, it's like you go for drinks, you're you're very excited about it. And now it feels like more, a more mature wedding, or marriage where we see each other every day.
It's okay. It's we don't need to have all the parties and And all the crazy stuff and and that this, and that, this is also a sign of maturity of the community in some way that we had the excitement and now there is like more this, hey, this is a long-term thing that we're gonna do for years.
. So we don't need to spend all our weekends on it so we can be more tactical about it too. Awesome. And it's. It's so interesting always to, to discover new to discover how service design is used in other countries. And and I'm sure people will go in depth in your profile and on Oblo's website to see all of your work.
Chapter critic
Daniele: And I'm particularly keen also today to get your perspective your, Personal, Roberta Soules, in the critique of one of the chapters of my next book on these tiny services and principles. And I'd like to ask, was there in the chapter that you read, which was how can we help people change habits? Was there something that you resonated with?
Roberta: I think a lot of the elements you mentioned are relevant when we talk about behavioral change. But at the same time there are elements that I was expecting to find there that were maybe I we're maybe missing. So at the end I was I left, I was left a bit. I think there is uncertain about the chapter itself.
The importance of triggers for change
Roberta: In particular, when I think of how do we change habits and behaviors, I think there is what we as designers, what we have been seeing a lot working in the years. It's always been that element of let's say, creating like triggers for people to then maybe start acknowledging a certain behavior is I don't know, generating certain outcomes, or even without that moment of awareness.
Jump in a new experience and then become aware later on of the process of change they are on it. So I think for example in my mind that there is always a very old at this point example that is when Nike launched the Nike Plus ecosystem and there were people who started to first of all, buy the sensor and then podcast.
com and then maybe became more fit. So that for me is an interesting way of, at the end, through a product, triggering, let's say, a behaviour change and let's say having a sort of an element that could be a catalyst for that change. And we saw it in in different contexts. Also when I was, for example, working at some point in Kenya into the informal settlement.
So we were dealing with the problem of fire and how the communities could. take action against this the start of basically fires in the settlement, which were basically destroying entire areas. In that case having a fire sensor that could detect when the fire was starting.
And then All the discussion around it and what could be the best system, the best process with that physical implication was a way to then bring a change to the community in, I think in a way that is more accelerated. So I think these symbolic elements always always help. And yeah, that's something that came to my mind when I was reading the chapter.
An incomplete book
Roberta: So
Daniele: interesting. I hear two elements. I hear one, which is you say the chapter left you hungry and the other part, which is you say, oh, there is a part about the catalysts, the triggers that is that is missing. So I come back to that just after and this is a very interesting part, which is which is something that Which is a feedback that I like, that people say, Oh, this left me hungry for more because the, in the way or the purpose I see for these books is not so much to be the answer to one question, to be the definite answer to one question, but to give a few very practical elements that people can start with.
And obviously this is the fourth book. There are more elements in the previous book, but I think this is a very good critique that people should know about, which is If you get this book will not give you the definite answer and it will not give you the kind of theoretical foundation to to work on these problems, but rather it will give you these tiny actions.
And I think this is a very important reminder that we have to give to people who might be interested in a book like that, that, there are different types of books and this one isn't one of those who will say, okay. What is behavior change? How does it work? What are you should know about this model?
Using inspiration for change
Daniele: No, it's just... Try this, maybe this could work for one element. And so now I'm very curious because you talked about this trigger, this catalyst. Could you maybe a bit expand on that and share what's your thinking when it comes to bringing change? How do you use these triggers?
How do you design them? How do you create these moments of where people say, Oh. Like the Nike plus thing, Oh, now I get something and it motivates me to go run. Or these fire triggers that you said how do you think about that? What's your way of working with these triggers?
Roberta: I think when especially when we work inside the Let's say at the transformation of inside the organization or not even at the level of the customer that is the one that we were mentioning before, we always say change is complex, first of all, and sets obviously the expectation for a long journey.
But I think that's something important to highlight and also that nobody likes to do complex things or to go through struggles just for the sake of doing it. So we always need, in a way, to see the rival point. Or maybe to have an inspiration, an experience that we would like to make both inside and outside the organization.
So I'm speaking both about the employee or the final customer. I think identifying these initiatives or elements that could be those triggers help because they can justify the effort in a way because maybe it's Something nice to do or something more interesting, something that you have never tried before, etc.
And we see also when we work inside the organization, so it's very hard to have a digital transformation process of change or other types of changes inside the teams and in the dynamics at work without Seeing where that could go or without having in mind some reference examples of successful initiatives that were created out of it.
And there is always even if both in the cases, let's say of an internal innovation or innovation that goes towards the outside. I think it's important to show, have those elements so that they can become the symbol of change, the reasons why, and also a bit of the motivator. And then I think the other part is to consider always the, in a certain way environmental portion of it.
And so what is Not just what is the individual, but also what's the group of individuals or the community and the environment around how that could influence the behavior as well. And I think there, there could be also a lot of inspirations that are more related to think of the initiatives that we do, or these triggers as something that is not always targeting individual but targeting groups and there are a lot of dynamics that could be maybe leveraged at that point.
Daniele: So it's definitely, if I'm hearing you you're saying it's a lot about creating an inspiration and less about Explaining, oh, you should do this because it's going to save your life and it's important that now you eat less sugar because blah, blah, blah, cholesterol levels, but more about sharing an image and a dream, something that people can aspire to and say, oh, yeah.
I want this I really want, and it's not like I don't want less less salt in my life. I don't want less sugar in my life, but what I really want is to be this fit guy who can run behind his kid who is learning to bicycle. This is something that I'm, that I aspire to, but eating less pizza, that's definitely not something that I aspire to.
I find this kind of element of inspiration definitely important.
Roberta: Another very simple example, a lot of time when we are in these processes of changing the way in which organizations work, they start thinking first of all of the tools they have and how they are using it. And they ask things like, okay, now we have to train everybody on how to write the minutes from the meeting or how to send the calendar invite.
That sounds already boring in first place, so typically we suggest to think more of the rituals that they would like to have or maybe what is the ideal let's say project or way of running the project that you want to bring inside the company and then by Practicing that or explaining that, obviously, also these other, let's say, components, which is basically acquiring basic digital skills, will be part of it, but they are perceived also and integrated into something larger and more inspirational for everybody who's participating.
How to create an aspiration for change
Daniele: And how did you get to do those kind of more... Aspirational, inspirational elements. Do you have your own kind of secret recipe to get there? Is it through research that you get there? How easy is it to find these more inspirational elements that can help trigger change?
Roberta: On one side, I think it's very difficult obviously to answer, but on one side we try to obviously also study more like literature around the topic in order to understand how behavioral science and scientists work and in general there are a lot, some Very simple frameworks like the COM-B model which is basically a sort of a fragmentation of the different elements that can influence a behavior and potentially become blockers for a change with the related, let's say, or associated enablers that could be an inspiration for ideation.
So in the time we have been using also these more like standard, I would say, frameworks a lot, but also opening the conversation with the people who are working on, with us on the project and ideating around this is very, it's very interesting because we can facilitate, let's say, conversation around what could be these elements and then structure a strategy around, around them.
Daniele: Thanks so much. So if I'm summarizing a bit, the one thing that you resonate with is this idea that we need triggers, we need to make the change visible and that we need to make this visible for people to say, ah, okay, there, there is something that I can change here. There is something that I can take power on.
The bias: too focused on the workplace
Daniele: And now I'd like to get even more critical. What's one thing where you say. Oh, this is deeply missing, this is something that I deeply disagree with, Daniele, in that part, or in the book in general.
Roberta: I Think, maybe for that part is also that I found a lot of these examples related, made me think of Situation at work, which is a big part of what we deal with, because when we are trying to change processes or work on the back end part of the service, that's for sure.
So I missed a bit that part of the front end.
Daniele: Like the real life of people and not just the workplace change. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think this is in, in, in this one, the change of habits is definitely more focused on the workplace than than the normal life, if we can say it like that.
Where to learn about behavioral change
Daniele: And what's maybe a resource that you would suggest or that you would suggest that would compliment that in a good way where you say. This is something that is missing how could people get that part that is missing?
Roberta: There, there is this yeah, nothing completely new, but for example, we have been using a lot the book Engaged ,it's published by Rosenfeld. And yeah, I think that's it's always a good reference for behavior change. So
Daniele: definitely if that chapter just left you hungry, good point. Go on Rosenfeld website, engaged. That's definitely the book to go deeper in in that aspect.
The toilet book format
Daniele: Is there anything else? Is there anything on that chapter or in the book in general that you'd like to share with the community, a reflection or something else that came through you as you were reading it?
Roberta: I liked a lot the format, so I think everybody could feel very much inspired by these thoughts and I like the idea that you can just maybe Not necessarily go through it from one page to the, from the first page to the last one, but even just open it up here and there as a way to get an inspiration or think about something.
So I think that's really cool. And yeah, I think that I don't have any more thoughts because I still have to read the whole thing. I focused on the chapter.
Daniele: Obviously. But yeah, thanks so much. It's I think often when I explain it to people, I say it's a toilet book, it's it's the books that you have on your, in your toilet, where you come in, you do your thing, and maybe you have a minute, and you open your magazine somewhere in the middle, and you start reading, and it's basically the same, it's just You read one, maybe say, ah, this was interesting, or maybe this wasn't, but at least it got me occupied for the time I had to do this action.
And and maybe that's, and I think that's a good a good place to end that critique I think, also to also give this humility of the, it's a simple book that, We'll give you a few inspirations, and if not, it will occupy your time on the throne. That's awesome. I know you are a big nerd as as we are, as many of us are in the service design community, and you're also a pioneer in that field, and so I assume there is a lot of resources, references, and elements that that you usually recommend on the topic of service design.
Resources to go further
Daniele: Let me ask you Is there, are there resources, books, models, or anything else that you'd like to particularly shed a light on for people interested in others or service design or behavioral change? What would you recommend to people? You already mentioned the combi model, the book Engaged. Are there other elements that you'd like to?
to share for people and say, Hey, this is a secret thing. You should get it.
Read about history and antrophology
Roberta: No I definitely I wouldn't have any secret secret thing. I always try to read a lot of things that are not. Service Design related especially lately because yeah, I've always found myself more in the needs of understanding topics about society in general.
So a bit maybe outside the practice, but more books written by anthropologists or yeah, talking about how our. Society is evolving. IF I have to go back to service design and suggest something closer. I think all the recent publications around system thinking, we see basically a new one every day.
I think it's a hot topic, but actually you can find the interesting interesting readings there. I'm, yeah,
Daniele: I'm very interested because this is I think that I see many of us go through, we start being very passionate about service design and reading a lot about that.
And as age and and and maturity goes, we opened the door of the garden to, to other fields. And so what's like the, maybe one or two last books, which are absolutely not. In the world of service design that you said, Oh, this really made me passionate, curious about.
Other ways of seeing the world.
Roberta: There is I don't know if it's okay for the type of audience, but one that I've been reading recently is from an Italian writer. It is called The Game, the book. The writer is Alessandro Baricco. And basically it was a sort of yeah, writer, scenographer. I'm a philosopher in a certain way in Italy.
Basically the book is about the evolution of technology from the creation, the moment in which the internet was born till now and the beginning of the AI era. And what I liked of the book is that there is always a judge, judgmental part of us when we look back or, and we look at what we are doing now.
And there is always the narrative of about things were way better before. And also sometimes when we look at younger generations, but also ourselves in front of the computer and the Smartphone all day. There is the perception that things couldn't go more wrong in a way. And while at the end there are a lot of aspects in what we are doing every day that are somehow created or related to a need that we have of maybe independence or expressing ourselves in a certain way, etc.
So I think it's interesting to reflect on our digital and behaviors with technology in a way that is less judgmental and more realistic about who we are and the... And I think the big learning is that we can change the situation, humanity in a way that we want to build, especially in these days in which we see what could change with AI and what we are trying to envision what is coming next.
I think a big learning is that what is coming next depends on from what we want in a way and what we... what we feel that we need to shape for us and for the next generation after. So I think in this moment I would suggest any kind of book also in not from Italian writers necessarily, but that is talking about responsibility, story of technology, evolution, and how to approach the usage of AI in in the next generation of services.
Daniele: Yeah. So you're giving us a very good call to action, which is step back a little bit. Maybe stop a little bit the judgmental self to just see things how they are without saying it's bad or good, but just seeing how they are. And then from there, seeing what could be the opportunities for the future.
And what's the future, what are the futures with us that we'd like maybe to shape based on that without. Saying today we really suck at it we're, but or this is the, it's saving the world. But more okay. How can we go further with it and also this break of saying, let's go back in history and see how is it that we are today here.
And for that, historians are often the best guides that can help us to see. Oh, there are a few reasons why we ended here and and the motivations are a bit different than the end result. And that's also always a very interesting. Awesome. I'd like to say a big thank you.
How to help Roberta
Daniele: But I know people are very curious about you and the work that you do with with OBLO.
and also with the servicedesigntools. org website and your teaching. If you had one call to action to share to people watching this video what would it be? Maybe that people get in touch with you or is there anything else that you'd like people to act related with your
Roberta: work? I think, yeah, just keep following OVLO because my team is is amazing and I'm sure they will contribute farther to the growth of the community and the conversations related to these interesting topics we have been discussing.
And also because we need support in general, I think it's not easy to be an independent After in the fields in which we are in the field in which we operate, we are proud of our choices so far, but it's not always easy. So I think feeling that people will appreciate or in general follow our work is always a good reward, let's say, for all the effort.
Daniele: So we heard it very clear, which is. We have a call to action as a community, which is support your local artisans, if we can say it like that, your local services and artisans. Share some love with the Oblo team, watch their work, follow their work, share it further. And one thing which is important is...
Give them the lovely feedback, just even if it's just saying, I saw your work, even just writing that it means a lot when you're in the trenches doing the hard work. And definitely do that. I think the team will enjoy it. And obviously, if you have more words to share than that. Do it, but I think it's more than deserved from the upload team to get this appreciation your feedback and even having it shared further.
Roberta: Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Daniele: Awesome. I'm already excited to see all the love letters that you will get in your office or per LinkedIn or per your contact form. And I will write mine right after that. For sure. And in my love letter, which I will make one part already public, which is
Closing words
Daniele: thank you so much, Roberta to you also to your team, because I've been in touch with a few people of your team in the past and you're very good at surrounding yourself by lovely people.
And and I see that and you've done that very well. And again, a big thank you for spending the time in reading the book spending the time with me today. And also for sharing all your knowledge with the community and being a pioneer that leads by example.
Roberta: Thank you. It's been A pleasure really to take some time at the end of the day to reflect on what we do and in general to get in touch with you as well after a lot of writing and exchanges at distance.
So thank you. Thanks
Daniele: so much and have a lovely evening. Bye-Bye. You
Roberta: too. Bye bye-Bye.